Our guest, Hemerson Paes, is the Senior Global Network Catalyst at Roche. He is passionate about transforming organizations. Throughout his career, he helped organizations design their Strategy and Supply Chain and change their working practices to a more human way of working. His current mission is to help individuals and organizations to flourish by reconnecting them to their collaborative nature. Working experience in Fast-Moving Consumer Goods, High Tech, and Pharmaceuticals spans seven countries on four continents (North America, Asia, Europe, and South America). His goal is to help companies to strengthen their business position and enhance their value creation.
Living Room Conversations: Hemerson Paes
Welcome everyone my name is Ricardo Garza I’m a catalyst at life sciences and it’s a pleasure to welcome you to our living room conversation for today imagine we are already at the 52nd episode so um well it has been a pleasure to facilitate some of these conversations and I would immediately want to share the title The the topic for today so that those of you who are joining us whether it is through Linkedin or YouTube or Facebook Facebook live you can immediately start sharing a bit about this topic and and start posting your questions and as indeed we want today’s conversation to be as interactive as possible also for those of you who are listening so the topic for today is unlocking the power of collaboration across borders and boundaries and what’s assumed here is I believe corporate boundaries that’s the topic and for those of you who are new to living room conversations what is all about this is all about these are informal conversations and these are conversations around new ways of working so I believe throughout the the different conversations we have had we we covered different facets of new ways of working whether it is in regards to agility or self-organization or deal um so that’s a little bit the spirit to sit on a nice couch grab a cup of tea or coffee and have this conversation without any further Ado let me introduce you to our guest for today who might actually know pretty well already and I was sharing with him before I hope we can be as relaxed as we usually are also in this conversation Our Guest for today is hammerson pious Welcome to our sofa hammerson hi Ricardo nice seeing you and thank you for having me here thank you for being here with us today Emerson and so let’s go straight into it and I know you you like to be introduced rather than through your job title through your purpose so I think I should share that you work for a big Pharma company rosh rosh Pharma this being said you share with me your purpose so let me share it back to you and obviously this is for for the audience uh Emerson you aim to unlock people’s collaborative potential and remove the barriers at work that prevent everyone from being fulfilled happier and healthier healthier so sounds sounds even better at your voice recording [Laughter] it’s quite quite a powerful purpose and to start our conversation the question I have for you is whether you would be open to share a little bit more about what’s behind this purpose what shaped your purpose what kind of professional experience and perhaps personal experiences brought you to also be so clear on what you want to achieve professionally yeah thank you it’s a good question I I can guarantee it didn’t happen by accident and many years of bad choices many mistakes um and many learnings as well one of the latest learnings we had is we um we identified in the organization people that are informal leaders and we actually worked a lot with them through network analysis we identified who are the key connectors boundaries planners or energizers in the organization right usually eight percent out of any any organization would be have between five to eight percent and uh recently one of the exercises we did was really to understand who often are thriving and what are the behaviors and the practices they use to to actually be successful at what they do and to thrive in life one of the things that came very clear was the purpose and those that are very happy on what they’re doing um successful they really use the purpose as the Norse star um I had an idea before that probably I need to work towards a purpose right and intuitively probably I did that very well uh but I was not able to articulate with this language that you just articulated so a little bit of the learning was like how can I articulate that Which experiences which mechanism can I use to actually craft that purpose and in a lot of self-exploration and reflection uh went through to get into that um reflection about what didn’t work which choices of work I did that I was not happy with and which kind of work give me energy and enthusiasm and which kind of interaction gives me passion and these uh this is what I came to be and with My My Craft purpose I’m still improving we don’t I don’t think I have a definitive proposing life like it’s not a final State it’s an evolution right continue learning and from collaboration from collaboration with others on partnership with others I keep improving I I am about to come with a new version of my purpose that it’s a little bit more well defined but this one is pretty good I I like I’m happy I do choices um really these difficult choices at work based on that purpose it’s a good question thank you thank you thank you for sharing Henderson and you already went into describing a little bit what you have what have kept you busy in Rush before going there so as part of your purpose you are talking about removing barriers at work that prevent everyone from fulfillment and and also getting in touch with everyone’s full potential would you like to share your perspective about what these barriers are typically not only in your company but maybe you can give us your more General perspective about these barriers that prevent many people from truly being who they are and expressing their skills and capabilities to the fullest at work yeah so yeah the barriers are many right into the um they’re visible barriers for instance one of the visible barriers that exist um are formal processes in organization that are intended to create compliance and safety but they end up preventing people from collaborating or leaving the full potential they are self-imposed barriers for instance I may say that I may believe that I can only collaborate with people that are on a certain team or in a certain function and maybe nobody ever told me that and I still probably believe that and so that is also self-imposed um it’s self-imposed as well they believe whether you can do more than what you think you could do you limit yourself and you don’t leave your full potential that’s also it’s self-imposed and then there are cultural barriers all right so you are maybe in a context people may be in a context that being yourself is is not accepted and it’s not inclusive it’s not diverse and that also limits the ability of people to be themselves and give their full potential I think I think we have one friend of ours watching Nicolas pity which is one of those that um talk a lot about the cultural barriers and the cultural context and how relevant that is for collaboration as well and maybe we can touch base more closely on one element one element that I believe if I interpret you you’re thinking well you perceive as a barrier towards more collaboration at work and and more expression and you see well you know we were discussing about how I would introduce you and whether I should start with your job title and we said well let’s not do that and I think there is something about job descriptions job titles that in your mind prevents people from going farther in in collaboration is there would you like to to maybe save that’s true and if so elaborate a little bit on this yeah I think there is a connection with identity as well you know um it’s it’s normal that people get attached to a certain identity we all human beings look for that type of reference and that’s why I prefer purpose you can attach yourself you identity to a purpose that speak your day in yourself and what we have seen um through network analysis and through and social uh social collaboration is that people that are pursuing um a purpose that is bigger than themselves they actually create energy they Inspire other people much more than if they rely only on the title um entitles are transitories aren’t they are we all gonna end up one day not working or working something different than we started um and it not being attached to a title and be entitled to a purpose gives you um much more give you much more space to reinvent yourself and one day you may be a catalyst another day you are something else but is it still aligned to your purpose it doesn’t matter or you may be easy you even evolve your purpose but your identity is not attached to that transitory reference point of um title that that’s what I think it’s sometimes more helpful and also it helps me if I say I’m a senior Catalyst people say what but if I say well I’m work towards unlocking barriers for people to live the full potential or unlocking batteries for people to collaborate at least they get a sense oh okay um maybe I know what you are doing it’s at least one start of a conversation what do you feel you have a title of catalyst deserve regard what are you what’s your impression about that well I mean when I shared your purpose it was immediately very powerful to me I immediately knew more or less by reading your purpose what’s what matters to you so I I would imagine that if we were all to do this at work instead of introducing ourselves through titles by immediately going cutting cutting through the you know through the unnecessary and going immediately directly into saying this is what matters to me here I am and how can we you know effectively work together based on this it would be quite quite remarkable it it is indeed we are doing an experiment exactly right on that we have we have a team um we are launching the ignite personal purpose at um our organization we we’re going to have a cohort of 400 people which will explore what’s the personal purpose we will have they will have um conversations with a peer that is matched by um AI um with guided conversations also Guided by artificial intelligence and to create actions to develop actions that they can bring them closer to that can bring it down closer to their purpose at work um one one of the examples I have is like with some of our colleagues we did a try on that and some of them I had come with my purpose and others came with the others and we said wow this is so powerful I have a colleague that her purpose is to bring communities together and so much her has nothing to do with her title her if you know impersonal and it’s absolutely something that she works towards um nothing again nothing to do with her title but it gives much more power as you as you say and we’re gonna see what happens with 400 people when 400 people start introducing themselves and crafting themselves towards purpose well um Henderson so this is one of the many experiments that I believe you have been undertaking as part of your job and so we can now more go more into into what you have been doing um I think the you know I know already about it a bit and I think the audience will benefit very much from hearing a bit more into details what what you have been up to as some of the work if not master all of the work you’re doing is quite Innovative and and Cutting Edge and and uh and so let’s let’s go into it um one word that you mentioned a couple of times was this network analysis and maybe we can start from there because I think if I remember well this has also been for you the starting point to start deriving some conclusions or drawing some insights into the specific situation when it comes to collaborate within your department at rosh so would you like to share a little bit more about what this organizational network analysis was was all about how I mean how you decided to to in the first place do this analysis why did you do it and what conclusions did you derived right that’s a very very broad question I know we probably need a lot of time on that but in summary during the initial trigger for um an organizational network analysis was to identify and to to Let’s surface a type of um element that exists in any organization in any social group what we call Social Capital it’s based basically Ricardo is relationships um entrusted relationships which is more important people usually think about Network and social networks as LinkedIn and Facebook um although these weak ties are helpful sometimes the real powerful thing comes from those trusted relationships you develop over time through your work and we wanted to surface that we want to understand what were those relationships how they are manifested inside the organization we have 13 000 employees operating 89 different countries um did we one of the questions we have do we have a collaborative culture regardless of the country the people are how intensive is that are there blockers um or innate and are there enablers can we find examples of strong collaboration across teams based on reference of relationships so basically we map it what is called Social Capital social capital is your positioning in a social networks that enable you to do your best and be your best again back to our initial discussion about barriers um whatever you are in a social group you may be exposed to barriers or enablers for your potential we know those that are better positioning the network than the center of collaborative clusters or they are building bridge between teams they benefit disproportionately more than those that are in the margin or they are isolated in the network because they just have access to better relationships more information and many times access to better resources so if they have good ideas and if they want to initiate anything they they can they have better Social Capital even if they are not high level in the hierarchy they also inspire a lot of people um they um I told you many of them what we learn from them is that many of them have a purpose bigger than themselves they’re not necessary in a high rank they’re not in a high position but everyone follows them whatever they say people get inspired by them because they trust them and that person usually has a good empathic relationship with many of their colleagues so the intention to understand that Social Capital those relationships and the dynamic of collaboration across 13 000 people in 89 countries it’s what triggered us to do organizational network analysis and an organizational network analysis nothing more than flashing out some components of those relationships we focus a lot on trust and on inspiration and people may focus on network analysis in different attributes but our work was very much towards understand how trusted relationships which stress relationships existed and how they then were crafted and developed and how the collaboration took place across 89 countries and 13 000 people well I I mean I you know I don’t have the full picture but I am sure the exercise that you have been doing at the scale you have been doing it’s not that common and can you tell us a little bit more about how how you have mapped out those relationships from a practical standpoint was it through surveys or interviews yeah it’s always first we call the Active network analysis each we actually ask people so we asked people um to nominate anonymously who they trust who do they go for inspiration if they have a difficult project who do they invite to be part of the team so when you get uh 10 000 answers um from everyone pointing to seven different people and you put in in a algorithm behind to create a network map and derive um Network metrics like how Central someone is to us to a cluster how many bridges how many different clusters someone is bringing together then you have a very good picture of your trusted relationships so this we did ask and then we did surveys later we did what we call Focus survey to understand the behaviors like what and why people would trust you what and what makes you special about collaboration right so we interviewed um people that we asked the questions and people that also were appointed by their peers again you can imagine that when you do this if you do this in organization a simple survey you’ll get an answer but because you have both sides talking and we had more focus groups and we could go really deep in understanding the intensity of collaboration first so we we could find out that majority of four colleagues uh spend 55 percent of their time collaborating with members of all the teams intuitively you’d think no it’s like um I have my administered I have my team so therefore I work more with that team right but actually when you put the numbers together it was 55 the global survey for instance indicated that most of the um the companies someone did that survey in the in the past a couple of years ago and it’s 40 percent the um intensity of collaboration with people from different teams so we we had 55 and so there is a mix nomination and if the survey is active and also focus groups through doing this what I feel you have achieved is to map action and you didn’t use the word leadership but what comes to me is you basically map toward the who who are the people that colleagues perceive as true leaders not because there is uh they are there superior but just because they are inspired by those persons absolutely quite quite interesting and I guess one interesting Insight you may have had is to see that well leaders may not necessarily always those who have been nominated As Leaders through this exercise may not not necessarily have been those who from an administrative standpoint functional standpoint are are leaders in the company I’m curious to hear a bit more if you would like to share here about insights yeah and I think the term management and Leadership got confused um after Peter Drucker a few years after after him because he was talking about leadership and Gary Hammond in the book of monocracy talks a lot about that so management managers or functions of management right at the hierarchy it’s really there to manage resources was created for that um usually these resources are related to financial resources but leaders for their heart the sense of the word originally used by Peter drug and still use it by many Visionaries lecture such as particular law or even you guys in live using that context are people that are able to inspire others uh able to take to inspire others to take action towards improving the life of customers colleagues in your case very much important also to improve the life of patients so anyone that identifies opportunity and are able to inspire other people towards that opportunity is what actually we would consider leaders and as you point out usually these people aren’t those that are um many of them were those we mapped in the network analysis but they didn’t match necessarily the management structure so only um only two-thirds of the inspirational leaders um on what two-thirds of inspirational leaders informal leaders are not manager they don’t have any management title right only 18 only 14 sorry I think I have my numbers uh mixed it up after after lunch but for only 14 of the line managers were in those informal leaders um identification as well so mainly because the main attributes behavior is nothing necessarily related to a position of hierarchy is nothing related to a position of control of resources it’s really about the impacted Behavior trust building Behavior right and an inspiration a lot of it is about the ability to pursue a purpose that is bigger than itself and you usually that’s not the thing that people are selected to in to manage resources right they are right usually selected because they’re good in doing that they’re going to be able to allocate funds or they are able to be compliant with the guidelines which is good and it’s something that is needed um what is missing is the recognition also of those that are informally this and we have a lot of examples of people that are able to mobilize a group of people that has no a team that has no they don’t have any reporting line too and yet and these people getting mobilized by the vision of doing something better for patients for customers Etc so Emerson you did this analysis you came up to basically map the you mapped these these relationships you identified a certain leaders within the network and and I’m curious to hear about how you have used this data um how you have exploited this data which kind of conclusions you have drawn about the state of your department and and which kind of actions you may have decided to to undertake um it helps a lot to decide which actions to not take as well Ricardo which I think are very important right equally important if not equally important if not more and and the way we actually again this all this work was um conducted also by teams uh self-formant self-managed teams that share the same vision or same same inspiration the same questions that I start to explain to you um was in the mind of all those that work there so for instance we wanted to learn and what is out there in terms of relationships and what can we learn for those informal leaders right and what can we do to ignite and even more right so then give them the conditions to do what they’re already doing very well which is leading formally and how can we remove those barriers that prevent them to act uh so all these is what uh we spend a lot of time learning with them and co-creating with them what would make sense the initiative about purpose is one thing that actually came from part of that exercise right um the the crowd sensing we did and we did a crowd sensing exercise we may you want to clarify what crowd sensing means crowd sensing yeah it’s very good question very good point so surveys usually is like I have a list of questions I send you those questions in replying back and I compiled the results crowd sensing is we set a theme a collaboration Beyond borders and then we let people raise their questions that they have about that topic and the colleagues that are in that community in that group on that discussion space that crowd sensing to answer those questions um from there we look into what the questions and answers were and see if there is a pattern so if we do this with one Community probably you get one type of answer but we do this for team communities so we could see clearly a pattern emerging and in this case a pattern around purpose igniting personal purpose so this is one way that we do so we we know who are the key connectors key collaborators we bring them together and we see the communities forming around then uh and then we just say hey we have this question uh or the theme um and we launched for the community and give them three days to talk about it and we hear what what emerges in terms of pattern and we then decided to intervene to create conditions to improve um the way of collaboration or remove barriers for everyone another question another way to use is to us to ignite um understand the behaviors they adopted um as I mentioned to you a lot about building trust creating energy right pursuing Mutual wins these are behaviors that they they use consistently under pressure non-depression and adapt to the environment and then we learned that and we we codified and we train people we offer people to learn about that as well so these are the way we use that and information that knowledge we didn’t it’s not about influencing or intervening in a different way other than letting that voice that is among that Community to emerge stronger and so if I understood you well one key point that has emerged by by doing this uh do I pronounce it well crowd crowdsourcing exercise yes um has been uh one key insight has been that uh if you connect people to purpose more then this would improve uh collaboration also what you have noticed is that for these key persons who have been identified as Leaders or as a most effective Communicator however maybe the wording we want to use if I if I hear you well you have actually tried to understand what made them uh being identified by their colleagues you identified certain what is it certain skills that they have or certain behaviors could you sure it’s more like behaviors because it become habits like I can give you an example something I’m really bad on it’s um keep um I’m really bad on um tapping trust advisors okay I I maybe have one or two people that I reach very often um but I don’t really cover all the areas in my life that actually would benefit from a device but some of them um this what we call Key connectors we call now we’re calling cultural cards but key connectors boundaries patterns energizes they do that they tap they have a trusted advisor for every aspect of their life they have career they have um for work um like a technical advisors and they have personal life as well those people that they reach out to and if you if you map those categories and there is one exercise we do is we map these categories I we did my first time and think oh gosh I have like only half of these categories covered so I have to be more intentional about those covering those areas that are not um I don’t have anyone that I can really get advice and trust their feedback you know and and that goes both ways not easy is it right I need to find someone that I trust and that trust me and also um it’s have expertise or able to cover that space that um you have a gap nice nice very interesting so a lot of insights out of this and um you know I’m I’m curious to see how these insights has been turned into perhaps some um action or some maybe training that you may have decided to do um uh for for example now you are telling me certain uh behaviors have been highlighted as uh it’s important by by those at the center of the network or the key the key the key collaborators and so how have you followed up on these insights have you developed training programs for to bring everyone to a certain level of higher collaboration yeah so the first thing we did is it is indeed is to develop a training program with the practices but also um Ricardo was to bring imagine now you have the key connectors in different clusters and these clusters were not connected right um so you have 89 countries in big countries um there will be many different clusters and memory many of them didn’t know each other they didn’t know they didn’t didn’t happen have touch or their past or their careers they haven’t have across each other so one of the first things we did was to actually bring the bring them together through this training program to not everyone use all the practice at the same time um or consistent or consciously so the training was mostly um geared towards give them language about the practice that they use some of them said oh yeah now now I know how to explain what I’m doing in a regular basis and others um and another intention was to bring them together and we have reports of them colleagues that collaborate on this training and continue collaborating moving forward from different countries different teams different groups and they say through that exercise they found their their soulmate someone that act and similar to them and had gone through the same challenges because you can imagine if they operate in a system that is not necessary favorable to the way they operate the collaboration that they create now they have a social group of support that when they face a challenge they can join it for it and and operate together when we measured how intensive and how much is stronger that Network became we simulated what would happen um back then if we remove and if we lose some of those key connectors the network completely fall apart now after two years we measure again and we can see that if we have a much more resilient Network because the the strong buoyance strong bonds between these key connectors increased um we also implemented organizational change based on what we learned from that and for instance I say having a purpose is important but it’s equally important to express your purpose publicly so people know what you’re pursuing and at the same time you can invite other people to collaborate with you so creating clarity about purpose objective making that visible for everyone is one of the practices that we introduce in organizational level um that it’s we learned from that group a second one was that many of these key connectors they think about skills capabilities first so if I want work in a project and I know that I need a skills that you Ricardo I if I’m like one of them I care less about your title more about your purpose and more about your excuse and capabilities I care very little about which department you are working on right so that’s another thing we learn and another organizational change we introduce it organizational design that we introduced at lime scale everyone make visible disk Q capabilities right and now we’re going to come into the purpose so that will become part of that Evolution it’s not overnight um it’s over time because they’re a big chance to be introduced in a large scale but it’s all based on what we have learned from this group Emerson I’ve read maybe it’s your latest paper and uh it’s the one that you actually submitted for the next practices Awards and in this paper Emerson you actually talk about an Adaptive organizational system governed by principles and you highlighted their six or so principles that you that you believe an organization should be governed by and then uh and then you also highlighted the um well the three pillars that would make an organization an Adaptive system and I I found this uh quite quite remarkable and would you like to share a little bit about about this wow yeah that’s another question another hour for us when we have 24 minutes so let’s see what we can do with that yeah so the the again the principles were those three of those I already mentioned to you right and making visible the purpose and the objectives we call in organizational lab where you’re called outcomes so what is the objective we’re trying to achieve making visible trans and transparent these skills and capabilities that everyone has or that are needed for that outcome and the third principle is this is the enable fluidity of people right um right so people can with those skills and capabilities and those purpose can then flow to the outcomes or the initiatives that are aligned to to those that has a match so basically trying to remove the fictional barrier of um organizational boundaries um as you put in the beginning but I also are about um cultural cultural boundaries right some people say um it’s not for my group I don’t collaborate that also maybe it’s not only cultural is also it’s not only organizational also involves a cultural element of it um so there’s all these principles all these six principles that are we listed in the in this award submission was learn from this group and it’s not something that I woke up one day in the morning and I thought oh yeah that’s the six things that we have to do no was a lot of teams teamwork a lot of colleagues um doing this focus groups exercise and trying to dispute that learning into um what could be done and the co-creation with them so a lot we invited two teams from formatted by these key connectors and Boundary spanners energizers to create what did this what are the principles that they would govern the organization and these three principles that I just mentioned would help organizations to become more adaptable just by enabling people um to flow or to apply the skills and capabilities to opportunities that are surfaced by these informal connectors the informal leaders or by anyone in the organization and also becomes more adaptable because you can see that if you’re one of those initiatives is not working and you can learn from these pivot and shift to something different and new to give a lot of autonomy to people so those principles in band with then a certain degree of autonomy and by enabling that fluidity um it calls the organization becomes more adaptable so there is a lot of research um one of the recent research done by MIT show shows that organizations that create those conditions and this is these are This research was done in 2022 at least published in 2022 Ricardo the organization that created those conditions improved by 30 percent of their their margin compared to the competitors just because they they’re managing a portfolio basically of initiatives people are able to uh choose where they apply these skills so then if they applying this using something that they love they have a purpose on and they can contribute of course the result is going to be better right you would need to achieve you would think the result is going to be better because they are invested in that and they can do it they are putting the excuse that they they are able to bring to to front and if things are not working on that space they can also shift and the excuse flow to something else in traditional organization you would have a long process of um evaluating initiatives and shifting funds for initiatives that are not helpful but seldom people move because they’re stuck in roles in jobs and right then unfortunately what happens is people get jobs get made redundant departments get closed and organizations lose a special and very important people because they have talent they have time in the company they have a long social network and with these people can carry that social network inside a company those excusing capabilities to different initiatives so again the principles are simple in theory very hard to do in practice because they rebalance the power in our organization but they also data independent data that has been researched by the MIT shows that is good also for the bottom line of the business this would have been a question question I had in mind you know if there was a way that you could prove the link between the kind of research that that you have been doing on collaboration and the bottom line and you you now mentioned a key piece of uh worked and done by the MIT which actually made a study to prove exactly that and besides MIT there are other organizations um in other Publications that confirm that for instance um fluidity of people Mobility enable mobility of people it’s used in the top performing companies by market share customer satisfaction and Market margin seven times more than by low performing companies right and this comes also from independent research and done by Institute of corporate productivity for instance right and so on so forth so um what we learned from a social group it’s actually validated by external research and we that’s what we do we also do not only look internally we also look externally and see which of those leverages we can take from the from our learnings that will generate the biggest impact Emerson you have done all of this research for a company which well you know I I know a bit about Rush having worked there and Consulting also for Rush and I know rosh is what is open to new ways of working and exploring some of what you have been sharing but still uh we are talking about a big company relatively you know working still with a hierarchy and so you have been doing these studies and getting these insights and I’m curious to ask you how how you are now bringing this forth to uh to do some change some changes I don’t know if it’s changes to the organizational structure or some other kind of changes that that would enable this for example resource reading um you you now have the data the wealth of data that supports you in saying we should be more resource fluid um now what would be your um idea to make this happen and maybe it’s already happening to an extent in your organization what’s already been the next step okay yeah so it’s not a research only where why we did not research we what we did is listening what we call is we listen we listen to the organization a systemic way um through different uh mechanisms organizational network analysis employees survey crowds crowdsourcing focus groups and we bring that all together and we listen to what’s outside as well but we implemented a lot of changes Ricardo Asia mentioned to you um there are development programs for the informal leaders right there are developing programs for General employee population um to elevated those excuse capabilities but they’re also organizational design that went in place um from that those learnings or one of them as again as I say is making visible on outcomes and objectives so that is in a massive scale today based on data from last year actually we had already 800 self-manager teams organized themselves around those objectives these are about 3 000 employees across 89 countries in the beginning we had we could measure like in the 2020 when we did the organization network analysis equipment measure the degree of collaboration across countries across markets and was five percent today is 57 mm-hmm so with those implementations of those um changes um in terms of capabilities but also organizational design where projects initiative so outcomes are made visible and people’s skills are made visible and there is an internal Market where people can flow with those skills and towards the objectives or towards projects that they could contribute the best we have increased at collaboration by 10 times right we had increasing the diffusion of innovation by 30 and we have 25 percent of the employees in flowing across the organization 800 self-managed teams wow but so let me imagine being part of one of these teams Emerson uh if you understand correctly I would actually be able to to choose uh to choose where I want to bring in my energy and and time uh by having visibility on the outcomes that different projects wants to achieve and this is great but what about my reporting line and the commitments that I have for my function I I see no there is no contradiction unless you want create one and unless your line manager wants established there is a contradiction but let’s suppose I can give you an example of an eye story so there is a colleague in Thai a team in Thailand again this doesn’t involve cross-country collaboration but a team in Thailand um decided to launch an initiative to provide more access to and partner with banks provide funding for patients to have access to medicines um someone from regulatory has nothing to do with access but is someone that contributes to the result of um that that affiliate anyway because he’s in that function it is someone that joined this project and provided the Insight the guidance about how health authorities would face that how they would challenge that proposition and help the team to craft a solution and negotiate with health authorities and negotiate with banks and a good and this person when an interview said these changes their perspective they’re not no more reactive they are no more sitting and waiting to receive a work they can see all the initiatives that are ongoing and they can say ah I can contribute to that one and I can learn from this and they see the direct impact of that work on patients or customers sometimes internal customers as well now would you argue that a person that is in the regulatory function that had to do the health of Health authorities is not contributing to the purpose of the organization because participating in a Access Project in a project that provides products access I would argue that um no unless you don’t want them to participate so let’s talk about Performance Management if throughout a year I take part to different projects with different uh also self-organized teams you mentioned then how would I which kind of conversation would I have at the end of the year with whom as well would it still be my line manager evaluating me yeah at the moment yes so Performance Management is not something you we tackled yet and the reason was also because when we did the network analysis when we identified whether people felt they were recognized by their contribution or their collaboration many people said that the daughter in the center of the network they felt that they were recognized by their peers and that’s what matters most for that so we didn’t necessarily tackle that challenging topic of Performance Management we do that survey again over and again and we ask people that when they’re participating these activities this crowd sensing one of the topics that came out was recognition reward you guess how many percent of people raise that as an issue a high number I would assume five percent five percent five percent so over and over again we get the message that yes for some people that is important yes we need to tackle this because 17 times um companies that have increased the mobility of people are 17 times more likely to have done that to a drastic pay in performance but not only for the individual it’s for all levels of the organization to incentivize collaboration Beyond boundaries Beyond borders and today is still done through the traditional way so employees would that participate in many activities they would bring that up front and say these are the contributions I made for these many teams um and this is the impact and uh then they would have a conversation about their current um performance plan but most of them benefit from something that does not include in the performance plan or in the annual review process Ricardo is those social bonds of trusted connections that are in many different projects initiatives it’s more likely that someone benefits or need a next opportunity in a next role in a right in another country because they develop those bonds then through their formal process and this is what when we ask people this is what comes stronger as the benefit that they see and from this type of work they will still do and again it’s a little bit about the culture right when you have a strong trait of a culture it will manifest itself despite the barriers that are put it in place um and one of these if you your culture is not um not strong on collaboration and it may be that you need a different type of incentives but when we identify that they’re very strong culture on collaboration this is one of the things we said we don’t tackle right now we tackle all the components that will benefit most of the people and again these came from the crowd not from decision from yes from me yeah yeah right thank you Emerson so we have 10 minutes left and we talked now about your work at rosh I I know also that you attend conferences your are also a speaker at conferences so I’m assuming you have a pulse a pulse for uh what’s happening at a broader level outside of Rosh uh maybe at a Pharma level or even maybe broader than that and I would be curious to to hear um to which extent the business world is ready to to you know step into this direction we are discussing about here um as you highlighted in in your company there are certain conditions already in place and uh and it’s quite advanced in my view as compared to um maybe where some other companies are so what’s your outlook yeah so one of the I I have some context some connections outside um in some Pharma companies but not many my selling other Industries is mostly in other industry I was invited to present in the next practice conference in U. S three weeks ago exactly because this in this conference they bring um all the Innovative next practices that are the trend in future organizations and they’re related to high margin better customer satisfaction and market share higher market share they call that the next practice it’s like practice that are related correlated to this performance but not widely adopted so I would say a lot of people a lot of organizations are talking about creating mobility of people creating fluidity of um for employees um give more than autonomy this this is very strong but not very well widely adopted um because it’s difficult to tackle we I saw a lot of we saw a lot of discussion about culture right what is a cultural fit cultural is very strongly related to um the top performing companies it’s responsible for 20 of productivity for instance retention employees Etc so this is another big Trend that it’s ongoing and as part of the purpose I did the culture there is this component of alignment with personal purpose and I saw small companies we have interactions with some Innovative companies on the tech sector not in us they are in Europe so they are more oriented towards they they have experimented with aligned purpose individual purpose and that’s another element that gave us the the certainty to pursue that that line of work um for the for this year and these are big trends that are upcoming um our I think all Ricardo is underlying this philosophy of Tu right that is there not often mentioned to you but the principles are the same that there in terms of autonomy interesting people um putting employees at the center of the decisions not as not as resources to achieve something but for humans that have um Ambitions needs and vision and I think the big big challenge our society need to be tackled by that angle anyway so these are the big trends that are um that we see taking shape in other organizations Pharma and outside Pharma nice Emerson which kind of advice would you have for uh poor listeners who you know regardless of where they are at within any given organization but perhaps there is something that you would you would suggest they could do practically speaking from tomorrow to Foster cooperation and collaboration um is there some is there some thoughts you have here yes I I would I we had I’m actually finishing to write a blog and a based on inspiration from conversations I had in in the next practice and Conference because I had that question as well how do we do to convince management to do something right whatever it is and my advice would be instead of trying to convince management think about inspiring other people so if you can Inspire the people that’s around you it’s great things a great sign and if you can Inspire other people that are true degrees away from your friend colleagues of your colleagues then you know you have something really powerful right and then you mobilize by starting with that mobilization of Inspirations don’t don’t get limited by the boundaries of your organization of your department or your team or even for your own belief right trying to explore Beyond get allies get trying to inspire people throughout around the ideas you have and that works for collaboration and that can work for diversity and enclosure that can work for any any purpose you’re pursuing make it visible talk about it and see if you can Inspire other people and by inspiring others you get a lies that will make the movement move forward I think a key word from that comes out from today conversation is indeed purpose and based on my experience I feel I’m unable to inspire specifically when I I know I’m connected to something which is important to me and I believe in and you shared at the very beginning that you came up with your purpose also by you know making some wrong choices or experiences which were not as pleasant and and I guess this is uh well all of this brings us to be more connected to what actually works for us and then and then from there we can inspire a bit also those around us so Emerson before I give you the the last uh words um there is something that I need to share and these are the upcoming events upcoming living room conversations and events so I would kindly ask the uh yes Ken thank you for bringing this up so we have exciting conversations ahead of us as you see happening in May with uh bullsock and one uh well the sun to bursox founder and then we have daf from um morningstars joining us here on the sofa and what you see written on the right hand side in German is actually an event taking place uh physically face to face in in Zurich and so if you do the scanning of that barcode you will be able to um to access the events page which is about Performance Management this being said Henderson are there any last few words that you would like to share with the audience and to leave us with don’t worry we just would like to thank everyone that participate I see a lot of comments coming through and some questions not sure if we covered all but uh we happy to be in contact and I think you guys are going to also um keep in touch so really thank you very much for inviting me to the sofa and was very comfortable and was a very nice conversation Ricardo thank you very much Emerson and it has been a pleasure to have you here with us and have a good rest of the day thank you bye bye bye